OBAMA'S WAR SPEECH: ESCALATE AND WITHDRAWBy Charlie SykesA roundup of some reaction to the president's speech. This morning, we'll talk about the gooid, the bad, and the silly.... BTW: did anybody do a count of how many times he used the word "I"? Consistent with slick salesmanship - as well as the president's character - the speech was quite self-referential. Providing a potted history of our military efforts in the war on terrorism, Obama took shots at his predecessor and attempted to cast himself as the hero throughout. Thus, he patted himself on the back for opposing the war in Iraq, on which he blamed the current difficulties in Afghanistan. Obama also patted himself on the back for bringing the war in Iraq to a "responsible end." But he failed to mention the surge in Iraq, which was instrumental in turning the tide to the point that it became possible to speak of a responsible end. Despite the rhetorical flourishes, it's pretty clear President Since his inauguration, Barack Obama has tripled the number of troops fighting in Afghanistan. After announcing the latest surge of 30,000 new soldiers in a speech at West Point, it is clear that he is a president actively prosecuting a war, not merely tending to one that was left to him. The rest, though, is a bit blurry. According to his speech, Obama is escalating while retreating, adding more troops while also setting a date for their departure. Obama said he was putting pressure on the Afghan government, but he didn't suggest how. Some of the blurring was by design. He smudged the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, explaining that while he was sending troops to Afghanistan, the struggle was now more regional than it was when the war started eight years ago. ,Victor Davis Hanson, who had much the same reaction that I did:That was such a strange speech. Deploring partisanship while serially trashing Bush at each new talking point. Sending more troops, but talking more about when they will come home rather than what they will do to the enemy. There was nothing much new in the speech, yet apparently it took the president months to decide whether even to give it. Ostensibly the talk was to be on Afghanistan; instead, the second half mostly consisted of the usual hope-and-change platitudes. Still, the president, to his credit, is trying to give the best picture of the Afghanistan war... |
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Monday, Dec 7 at 12:11 PM MADDOG wrote ...
Its unbelievably obvious that libs are one dimensional.
33241677 Flag for moderationMonday, Dec 7 at 10:54 AM TWP @ That One wrote ...
What the heck does "review the political spectrum" mean? The term "spectrum" in physics denotes a one-dimensional continuum. Is your political worldview one-dimensional?
33236959 Flag for moderationMonday, Dec 7 at 9:23 AM MADDOG wrote ...
Does not mean ALL people have such tunnel vision. Us conservatives know that ALL democrats are not bad or liars. Just as ALL conservatives are not evil racists (if ANY are at all.) But you libs seem to deem anyone with a different opinion as "EVIL, NEOCON, RACISTS. The only racists I see or hear are liberals. Which is a big reason I stopped voting democrat.
33231697 Flag for moderationMonday, Dec 7 at 9:19 AM MADDOG wrote ...
Lets put it this way. FDR and earlier democrats created what would be considered socialist programs way back when. BUT they actually thought they were doing good. When it was realized the programs did not do what they were supposed to the programs were eventually stopped. These jags in office now are trying to re start programs we KNOW don't work. And they know they don't work either. Just because you libs cannot distinguish between the OLD democratic party and the party as it is now
33231489 Flag for moderationSunday, Dec 6 at 11:53 PM That One to Walt wrote ...
Walt, what are you smoking? "Sorry I thought Truman and FDR were Democrats I didn’t realize that modern day American-hating socialist LIBERALS were changing the history books to turn ALL democrats into the Marxist that liberals have become today." Your words, not mine--perhaps you should review the political spectrum before you blog your stupidity.
33218532 Flag for moderationSunday, Dec 6 at 10:00 PM TWP @ That One wrote ...
I believe Walt suggested (and I agree) that modern liberals have become effectively Marxists. If he said FDR wasn't socialist, I missed it. If you made a "hypocrisy point", I missed that too. Ditto if you made a point in support of Obama's war speech (the topic of this thread).
33215019 Flag for moderationSunday, Dec 6 at 5:30 PM Hank wrote ...
yes, FDR pushed the US toward Socialism - what hypocrisy??
33205782 Flag for moderationSunday, Dec 6 at 12:31 PM That One to Walt wrote ...
You prove my hypocrisy point. Obama is a socialist, but FDR is not. Who created the alphabet soup of government job stimulus programs during the Depression? Social Security? Who ordered auto manufacturers to produce tanks? Who implemented rationing of foodstuffs? Who created the Federal Income Tax? Who ordered private bank holidays? If Obama is a socialist, as you party of embalmed ideas suggest, how can't FDR and Truman (who proposed national health care) be socialists in your mind?
33195317 Flag for moderationSunday, Dec 6 at 12:00 AM Hank wrote ...
FDR was certainly a skilled politician - politics was his life, ala Obama. To what end? - Yes, FDR successfully prosecuted WWII, by giving control to his Generals. FDR never solved the Great Depression (he tried printing more money, just like Obama). We only overcame the Depression by having an unfettered economy with low taxes after WWII. Point is, Obama's spending and taxing will extend the Recession into perpetuity
33176099 Flag for moderationFriday, Dec 4 at 10:37 PM TWP @ CPA wrote ...
As I said, that's more complicated and beyond the scope of 500 characters. In broad view, probably more concessions and deference were paid to Stalin than ought to have been, and a terrible price was paid, most of all by the Russian and eastern European people. I'm not painting this one as liberal/conservative question, either. Wilson/WWI was a different matter, where the arrogant know-it-all utopianism characteristic of the modern liberal WAS a heavily in play.
33129179 Flag for moderationFriday, Dec 4 at 10:05 AM Walt to That One wrote ...
Sorry I thought Truman and FDR were Democrats I didn’t realize that modern day American-hating socialist LIBERALS were changing the history books to turn ALL democrats into the Marxist that liberals have become today. So I guess you will next try to convince us that JFK was also a liberal, or maybe Zell Miller who once said “I didn’t leave the Democrat Party, the Democrat Party left me”. You liberals never see the forest for the trees.
33088039 Flag for moderationFriday, Dec 4 at 9:07 AM TWP wrote ...
WWI/Wilson is a terrible example of "winning" a war. The manner in which it was "resolved" led directly to the far greater carnage that we call WWII. It was more like WW, parts I and II. There is also a good case to be made that the end of WWII was rather seriously mishandled (wrt the USSR, and on FDR), but that's a bit more complicated.
33084344 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 7:41 PM Carl Skalitzky wrote ...
Another view: Obama will spend more money on the war to justify spending as much on health care. An older interpretation of the Liberal (French Enlightened thinkers)cause says that people are good and war is avoidable, and deocratic societies will not war against each other (quickstudy.com). With Realism (Conservative), people ought to be suspicious and use a strong military to deter attack. Any "belief" that suggests killing, is void of self discipline and tolerance. I am not all trusting.
33062096 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 6:08 PM That ONe wrote ...
Sorry, Harry Truman actually finished what FDR would have won.
33057892 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 6:08 PM That One to Walt wrote ...
Woodrow Wilson FDR Two liberals who can't win wars?
33057859 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 11:48 AM Walt to John / Racine wrote ...
“Hurray! It's Vietnam Pt II.” You’re probably right; everything is in place just as it was during Vietnam. On the one hand you still have a dedicated well trained volunteer military fighting force; and on the other you still have the Hollywood anti-war nitwits, college lemmings that would rather binge drink and smoke pot than serve their county but MOST IMPORTANTLY you once again have liberals calling the shots in Washington. Everyone knows liberals can’t win wars.
33035182 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 11:29 AM Walt to Brian H wrote ...
In the Coast Guard we have a saying “One Aw-$hit deletes 10 At-A-Boys” because it’s that one mistake morons like you always remember. The Crusades happens to Christianities One “Aw-$hit” and you liberals just won’t let it go, even after all the At-A-Boys that Christianity has given the world for the past 2000 years. And on the other hand we have Islam that kill infidels as a path to heaven, dismembering, humiliating and controlling women and just have a generally repulsive outlook on life.
33033886 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 8:07 AM @That One wrote ...
Yes, we have oversimplified what Our Dear Leader said. You are correct, His speech was much more than "escalate and withdraw". It was escalate and withdraw, accompanied by a whole boatload of vacuous platitudes. We stand corrected, thank you for your feedback.
33021096 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 7:25 AM fax wrote ...
Obama Made his "love me tour", returned home and the press agreed everyone Loved Him. Told the world Bush was Bad and he was different and wanted them to know evil Bush was gone. OK? His bowing, hugging and kissing just didn't work did it? Behind his back they were wonder why Americans elected this self loving goof. Obama assumed if he ask them for troops they wouldn't dared deny him. He had charmed them, as he did Americans. Well, today he learned, hes on his own. ego, bursted
33019602 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 4:23 AM KK wrote ...
If I'm not mistaken, we were protecting French colonialism in Vietnam..not the Vietnamese themselves. Ho Chi Min went to FDR to help rid them of the French, but we were protecting our French ally and he saw his road to freedom through Communist Russia...then we stayed after the French gave up to try and prevent Vietnam from falling to Communism. Here we are protecting the Afghans from terrorists and we should stay as long as they want our help and protection. (I hope I have my history correct)
33016272 Flag for moderationThursday, Dec 3 at 2:55 AM John / Racine wrote ...
Hurray! It's Vietnam Pt II.
33014969 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 11:50 PM TWP wrote ...
"Open-ended so we are at war forever." What a deep thought. Few wars in history have lasted forever, but every one that's been taken seriously has been "open ended" - fought by parties committed to seeing it through to victory or defeat. Fighting a war over something you don't care about enough to stick with is immoral and stupid.
33010034 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 11:46 PM That One wrote ...
"We will execute this transition responsibly, taking into account conditions on the ground," Obama said, declaring that the nation's security was at stake and that the additional troops were needed to "bring this war to a successful conclusion..." Yeah, all he said was escalate and withdraw. La la la, my republicant fingers are in my ears or I am too sick to listen like Fireman Jim
33009866 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 10:45 PM @Brian H. wrote ...
yeah, Christianity caused Catholic pedophile , etc. - I'm sure you would say terrorists are aberrations of the Islam faith - all the examples you cite (including the Crusades) are aberrations of the Christian faith
33007594 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 10:36 PM @FarRight wrote ...
Did you make it through the speech? Did you make it into work today?
33007237 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 10:26 PM News2Use wrote ...
The original troop request was 80,000, by the way
33006759 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 10:26 PM TWP wrote ...
Everything Brian H mentions added together amounts to a small fraction of the carnage of the "spread of Islam" through India alone, which in turn is a small fraction of the human cost of the atheistic Marxist experiment in the USSR. religion is the second worst thing in the world - after atheism.
33006754 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 10:21 PM News2Use wrote ...
As Rush said today, the Taliban will be noting whoever helps the US in the next 2 1/2 years, and there will be Hell to pay then - of course the Afghans know this, so no one will help the US anymore - great move, Obama! (of course he'll be applauded for bringing the troops home just before the next election - why can't everyone see through this charlatan of a Prez?)
33006526 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 9:40 PM Brian H. wrote ...
No Leo of the Bo-Morons - you're absolutely right. We should start another war with absolutely no exit strategy and make it completely open ended so that we are at war forever. Kind of like a hamster on a wheel. Let's do that. Applause to CK for actually giving credit where due even if you don't give credit to the man doing it. And "Hey Brian H" - Salem Witch Trials, Pedefile Priests, the Spanish Inquisition, Protestants vs. Catholics, Jim Baker, Go ahead and google - Catholic Ustasha for Fun !
33004814 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 9:18 PM ijeff wrote ...
Obviously as president you can no longer vote present. I guess this was the next best thing.
33003776 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 8:19 PM CK wrote ...
Sending men to fight, knowing some of them will die, is not an easy decision for R's or D's. When you do decide to do this, staying out of the military's way and accepting the brutality of war is even harder. While not an Obama supporter, he finally made the right decision on the surge. The July 2011 date is window dressing & means nothing-it is all politics. What we should hope for is that our President can be steadfast and let our military do their thing even as horrific as war is.
33000912 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 7:24 PM Hey Brian H wrote ...
Can you come up with something a *little* more recent than the Crusades and the Inquisition? We've also been very involved with things like ending slavery and getting civil rights enacted. In regards to the speech, I was listening on the radio and then mentally tuned out after hearing a series of I, I, I, I, I. Is this man completely unable to *not* make something about *him*?
32998272 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 6:53 PM Leo of the Bohicans wrote ...
Escalate and withdraw? Sounds like victorius interruptus. Or the Bamster just can't keep it up.
32996656 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 6:46 PM Brian H. wrote ...
Hey Carl - How about purge religion completely? Religion as a whole has caused more destruction than any of the other man-made atrocities combined. And if you idiots come back with, "The Christians haven't done what the Muslims have done!" Save it and then google - The Crusades. Also - this thread is proof that there is NOTHING that Obama can do that you won't criticize. Instead of seeing things for what they are, you mold and fabricate them into what you want them to be. Its truly Pathetic.
32996339 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 6:33 PM FarRight wrote ...
My friends and I have come up with the perfect solution to watching an Obama speech without falling asleep from the professorial, narcissitic and disingenuous tone...pour your favorite cocktail, sit back, and take a sip each time he says "I" or "me". Last night, for example, we were all finished with our drinks in the first 5 minutes of the speech. Try it the next time you are wondering how you will make it through another passionless speech. Double sips any Bush Blaming!
32995844 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 6:21 PM Walt to CPA wrote ...
I bet if I tried to get the “lemmings” on moveon.org to practice “free speech” getting my arguments out there I’d have more trouble then you say you are having here. What’s a matter running out of WORDS in your vocabulary to keep up on Sykes Writes, O! Well you can always go back to the “moveon.org” site and post there but those guys have probably already fallen asleep by now.
32995159 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 5:49 PM CPA to Walt wrote ...
Name the nations and how many troops they provided for "COMBAT" purposes? And whiling your naming, give the dates and numbers that were in "COMBAT". Allies my ass. The only other ones dying in combat are the Brits, maybe some Aussies. No Germans, Japanese, Spainards, Italians, Belgians, or last but not least, the French Frogs. After Barcelona, Spain backed out and that was when GWB was trying to get help. A liberal congress had nothing to do with a lack of allies, it was terrorists.
32993429 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 5:15 PM Walt to CPA wrote ...
Where are our “allies”, well it seems to me that we had more allies during Desert Storm all the way up until the liberals took control of both houses of congress about 3 years ago and slowed the war funding down substantially. Whether you like the idea of not we are the leaders of the free world and people follow the STRONG leaders. Now that this country HAS NO LEADER it is perfectly understandable why our “allies” are falling off. The world knows that liberals ALWAYS lose wars, so why bother.
32991339 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 5:00 PM Jacob wrote ...
Did anyone notice that he blamed Bush for not providing enough troops when his General's were asking for them. In the dame speech where he is committing less troops than his own General is asking for. (providing 30k when 40-80k were requested)
32990454 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 4:58 PM CPA wrote ...
I hope you're not telling me Bush, Cheney and Rummy are military experts. Since time memorial the little guy has been dying for the politican/leader. As for destroying Japan and Germany and then rebuilding them up, who is going to rebuilt out country? Why is NATO in Afghanistan? Why isn't it SEATO. Japan and Germany refuses to put troops in combat which leaves more dying for GI and Brits. Where are the "Allies" of the world who are at risk? You cons always think you can turn crap into roses.
32990279 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 4:30 PM Winston Obama wrote ...
We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. For the next 2 1/2 years. Then we shall quit.
32988489 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 4:18 PM Walt to CPA wrote ...
I hope you aren’t trying to associate British imperialism & Soviet dictatorship on the same plane as American democracy. Americans have a VERY BIG stick but we are also very just, even in war. Just because imperialism, socialism & dictatorships failed in Afghanistan you can’t be sure these people are incapable of embracing democracy? America has already proven it can destroy its enemy (Japan & Germany) and still rebuild the people and the land.
32987732 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 2:16 PM Jim the Fireman to CPA wrote ...
I'm far more aware of military strategy and tactics than you might think. I'll leave that there. The point I'm making is that starting with Korea we've never unleashed the full might, inventiveness and fury of the US military. We've let our politicians, those least capable of making a military decision to decide the strategy and tactics of our war-making ability. How would we do that in Afghanistan? We'll never know.
32979484 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 1:19 PM CPA to Fireman wrote ...
Its obvious you don't understand what war is like in Afghanistan and the logisitics of combat. Just like the British thought they could defeat the colonists. What would you do? Bomb them 24 hrs aday? Where would you fine them? Sitting in the open with a target on their arses? All the power of the US military is useless in Afghanistan. Sure, the US has more fire power but it has limited affect, especially against IUDs. Get real will ya. Or read about the Soviet's experience there. Or the British
32974844 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 1:09 PM Kenny G wrote ...
It sounds more like a siege than a surge policy. Wait 'em out, starve 'em out. Yeah, that's the way to win the hearts and minds. Note: Their hearts and minds CAN'T be won over by us. So just leave 'em alone and quarantine the incoming arrivals. AND STOP BUYING THEIR DOPE!!! They have a dope-based economy. We can grow poppys on farms here. We can stop the flow of terrorism by ceasing commerce with these people. So they don't buy a Ford. What else do we make that they COULD want? Burgers?
32974054 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 12:32 PM Robert wrote ...
BTW - If I counted right, the answer is 43
32971432 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 12:29 PM Doug wrote ...
R Kelly's song does have a connection with politics, A young man wanting to impregnate a woman with no resonsibility ie our culture, and the President wanting to surge our efforts in Afghanistan and then withdraw with no responisibility.
32971204 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 11:27 AM MADDOG wrote ...
And then it will be" Look at what George Bush did to us!!!!!!!!!! wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
32966571 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 11:25 AM TWP wrote ...
The policy will be an immediate "success" as violence drops to a fraction of what it's been. This of course will be because, not having been born yesterday, the enemy will simply lay low until the US leaves. In effect this policy schedules massive failure for sometime after the next election.
32966406 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 11:05 AM Walt to Troy wrote ...
You’re exactly right, it’s happened before. BO is sending more troops there with the message “get it done quick and get out before my 2012”. It’s all about him, not the troops OR the Afghans. What Afghani soldier of policeman will feel comfortable knowing that getting too chummy with Americans could get back to the Taliban? In Southeast Asia when democrats decided to lose that war the killing fields were full. Obama likes hearing his name; maybe they will name a killing field after him.
32965129 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 11:00 AM Jim the Fireman wrote ...
What would happen if we unleashed the full power and might upon the Taliban? Why aren't we doing that? Why don't we want to win?
32964762 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 9:50 AM bannedcat wrote ...
The Iraq "surge" so trumpeted on this blog came 4 years into the war. It was the product of a series of colossal failures and miscalculations on the part of Bush, Rummy, Cheney, and the rest of the gang that couldn't shoot straight (literally in Dick's case). YES, The surge worked. Obama noticed this and is trying to repeat the success in Afghanistan. He listened to Gen. McChrystal and gave him all he needs to succeed. If he asks for a little more time in 2011, Obama will listen again.
32960377 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 9:36 AM Bill wrote ...
Charlie you forget to include your hero Petraeus' take on the speech. http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/1209/petraeus_tension_in_war_speech_78908bed-f40c-4461-8d33-f2287fa90619.html
32959332 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 9:35 AM Jim the Fireman wrote ...
One more thing. I was really sick last night and missed Obama's egotistical rant. During the speech did he at all mention DEFEATING the Taliban and Al Qaeda or did he just talk about ending the war? Was the concept of "victory" ever mentioned?
32959272 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 9:23 AM Jim the Fireman wrote ...
WBM: Sadly, a guy like Patton wouldn't be welcome in today's military. He fought too hard and demanded complete demoralizing defeat of the enemy at any cost. He was not a political general but a military genius. I have a feeling that folks like him are no longer welcome in the top levels of the military. They also wouldn't be allowed by the politicians, those scoundrels who feel it's more important to win at home than on the field of battle.
32958499 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 9:15 AM Jim the Fireman wrote ...
So, we tell the terrorists that all they have to do is hide for one year and then they will be free to have at it. How is this good? What exactly does this accomplish? From a logic standpoint it is sheer nonsense!
32958019 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 9:01 AM Troy wrote ...
How many people are going to change sides knowing that at a point,the troops will be leaving.The taliban will just wait it out,and when troops leave,they will kill those who have change sides or made nice with the troops. By the way,with the prez in love with himself so much,why don't he just start using him in a third person.Can you just think of it.Barrack knows this and barrack knows that.At least it would make it interesting.
32957212 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 8:59 AM Whitefish Bay Mike wrote ...
Obama is a travesty. If George Patton had been in that hall, he would have briefly exited to the kitchen and grabbed the nearest garbage can, and would have walked up to the podium and emptied it all over this usurper in front of everyone.
32957164 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 8:56 AM Carl Skalitzky wrote ...
Our mission is to train Afghanistan's army and leave. The terrorists will reemerge throughout the world. What needs to be done is to purge religion of bad ideas. The only thing to survive after your life is your copyright if it is valued ... "you will judge the dead".
32956984 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 8:41 AM jenni wrote ...
The speech was basically a half hour of "Bush bad, me good". It was not in the least Presidential.
32956272 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 8:15 AM Jeff K. wrote ...
Obama can't decide on and option so he made every option in one decision. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He should be a man and take a stand for once in his life. Either be resolute and commit to getting the job done or fully retreat like a coward.
32955044 Flag for moderationWednesday, Dec 2 at 8:08 AM ijeff wrote ...
I've got it figured out. Obama is taking credit for responsibly winding down the Iraq war without giving credit to his predecessor's surge and he's going to surge in Afghanistan while placing blame on his predecessor for making him have to do it! What a peace of work this president is. Can you imagine the reaction if Bush had laid out his Afghanistan strategy while blaming Clinton for not capturing Osama bin laden when he had a chance?
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