WAS IT THE SACRED CAVE RITUAL?By Charlie SykesLast Tuesday, the State Assembly began its daily session of running our lives with a prayer, as per usual. Except, it was not per usual at all. One legislator thought the prayer itself sounded so odd, he decided to check into the background of the Rev. Selena Fox, who apparently had been chosen to inspire lawmakers with a little dose of paganism. Rev. Selena Fox is senior minister and high priestess of Circle Sanctuary, a Wiccan church, Pagan resource center, and Nature preserve with a worldwide Ecospirituality ministry ... For more than thirty years, Rev. Fox has served as one of the elders, religious freedom activists, and public media spokespersons for the Wiccan religion and related forms of contemporary Paganism and Nature religion, nationwide and internationally... She is author of the Goddess Communion handbook and the research study: When Goddess is God. Her audio recordings include Sacred Cave Ritual and Magical Journeys... And then there is this: She is among the religious leaders appointed to and presently serving on the Religious Practices Advisory Committe to the Wisconsin Department of Corrections.
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Thursday, Nov 19 at 8:41 AM Michael wrote ...
The actual punishment for both witchcraft and heresy is death by public burning.Since the AntiChrist is here and the end of time is not far off,we can expect the whole earth to be torched very soon. Are you ready for the Last Judgement?
32347504 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 11 at 4:27 PM bobbie wrote ...
It would be enlightening if people that wrote about religion knew what they were writing about.
31964184 Flag for moderationSunday, Nov 8 at 4:45 PM sandy wrote ...
So we're making a big deal out of some guy researching someone's religion? Ooh baby, what a story! Alert the media! ...oh, I see. They did.
31802636 Flag for moderationFriday, Nov 6 at 9:12 PM TWP wrote ...
Most religions think beliefs matter. That's why they care. Christians believe it's better for you and for humanity that you be a Christian than not. The view is similar for many other religions. Anyone who wants the best for you and believes their religion is best for you wants you to accept it. That's not intolerance, that's love. But basic to civilized coexistence is agreeing that it's your decision, not theirs or anyone else's. That's tolerance, and not everyone is equally good at it.
31730411 Flag for moderationFriday, Nov 6 at 10:01 AM Spiritual Matters wrote ...
@Paul...I care about you! I am worried that you may be confused by thousands of years of competitive patriarchal rule and what that has created (the modern Bible). I am afraid for your soul, that you have lost sight of true faith and spirituality...that interconnectedness that binds us all to one another. I worry that you are lost. I will not, however, belittle or berate you, as those actions do not promote the True Love of God, Universal Source, or whatever you call it. Peace my brother!
31694774 Flag for moderationThursday, Nov 5 at 9:09 PM Paul wrote ...
@Obvious - sorry if you felt shunned at Christian ceremonies - as the Bible says, we Christians should never "judge" anyone else (in the spiritual sense)
31672176 Flag for moderationThursday, Nov 5 at 9:06 PM Paul wrote ...
@Obvious, etc.: We Christians disagree with other religions because we believe ours to be the Truest and the Best, and we want to share the Wonderful Grace of God with others - We want to share God's love with everyone. Believe it or not, Christians care about you, because God cares about you and loves you. (Pagans don't care what you believe because they don't care about you.) You may want to read C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" as an introduction to our beliefs.
31672089 Flag for moderationThursday, Nov 5 at 6:56 PM Captain Obvious wrote ...
So if you choose to worship Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, Zeus, or the kitchen sink, at least pick something that calls to you and will help you on your spiritual journey of enlightenment & self improvement. I have been to several Christian ceremonies where I felt odd as I was not part of the belief system and felt shunned. Paganism does not feel the same way. Most Pagans don't care what you worship, as long as it works for you and does not cause harm. IMHO, more religions should be as tolerant!
31666904 Flag for moderationThursday, Nov 5 at 6:53 PM Captain Obvious wrote ...
Also, why do people have to get all stuffy because someone else practices differently than they do? For all the good religions do, more people have been killed in the name of religion or God than for any other reason. I know what I believe & what works for me. Everyone should be free to find what works best for them, whether it is a "mainstream" religion or not. All faces of God are still just that, faces of Devine. (Cont. Next Post)
31666764 Flag for moderationThursday, Nov 5 at 6:48 PM Captain Obvious wrote ...
Freedom of religion means ALL RELIGIONS. Spouting passages out of ancient texts (the bible) does not mean those are the words of any God, just words that MAN has written and changed through the years, on purpose or not. Most Christians, if they cared enough about their faith, would do good to CONVERSE with God directly and get info from a personal relationship with HIM! Not words from a book. As the saying goes, "God, please protect me from your followers!"
31666519 Flag for moderationThursday, Nov 5 at 11:30 AM Christopher Blackwell wrote ...
Gee all the tearing of hair over a non sectarian prayer. Get over it folks, neither Wiccans nor Pagans nor Heathens are going to go away. We are part of America, we fight and die in your wars and we are your neighbors, friends, and fellow citizens. So we have every right to be fully represented in government as well. Protestant Christians no longer have special rights. Religious freedom means, no special protected rights for any religion. Democracy and Republic were Pagan ideas
31641051 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 10:17 PM AJ wrote ...
And the end will come when the whole world hears the truth..whether they accept it or not isn't the issue. Is the Us the last founded nation,yet we've spread more truth of Christ than them all and came here to have that right,and freedom. We all know whats right and wrong, why stand for wrong? God will heal this country when the people do whats right!
31613499 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 10:15 PM Paul Shortis wrote ...
It never ceases to amaze me that the carpenter from a minor Jewish town who was supposedly crucified upon a tree for speaking out against the established prominent religious organization of the day, who followed the hermetic beliefs of the essene and gnostic Jews is now regarded as the head of the Christian church who he would, as a Jew, have been regarded as a heretic and pagan by the authors of the Roman Christian church as formed by Paul so much later!
31613401 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 9:35 PM lome wrote ...
People,you can't be in the middle ground. Either you are a believer or a non believer. For a believer,there is only God and Satan period.Those who were offended are the Children of light,and those who knowingly oppose are the children of Satan..Now what is wrong about that? If you can't believe in God of light ,you can't believe in God of darkness either or you're being discriminatory.
31612249 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 9:05 PM Linda wrote ...
Aren't our elected officials charged with representing all of the people, regardless of religious belief? For those who may have felt offended by the invocation because it did not represent their tradition, get over it. I'm a Christian but I recognize that my beliefs are not those of all my neighbors. If we insist on opening public meetings with prayer then we had better be willing to offer the opportunity to all traditions, otherwise we're flirting with theocracy.
31611356 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 8:43 PM Johnny MoonOwl wrote ...
I'm sorry... but what is the point of this article?
31610731 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 6:52 PM Migizi wrote ...
PJ why do u only quote and not have an original idea or thought? Just because a book tells you so it's true for everyone? I respect the bible and it's teachings. But my heart and spirit are with my ancestors. Whom by the way were here way before the European settlers came with their christian beliefs and they did just fine. I have met Selena and she should be respected for the things she has done. Even if u don't agree with her she would be the first one to defend ur right for religious freedom.
31606874 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 9:50 AM Dave P. to Sheherazahde wrote ...
I think we're on the same page, then...interesting how the comboxes here have completely gone off the rails, and on both sides...
31574646 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 8:10 AM fallon wrote ...
i remember hearing the Dali Lamma talking about different religions. He had said that God was like a many faceted diamond. Each religion was simply looking through a differnt facet. Why do we as a people find it so hard to see the divine in each other, and to love each other? Why do we tear each other apart, hate, point fingers, argue. Why cant we find it in ourselves to just Love. just Love. We may be different, but we are all people of this earth. Hate and rightousness will get us nowhere.
31567791 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 7:55 AM fallon wrote ...
i remember hearing the Dali Lamma saying once that God is like a multi-faceted diamond. And each religion is one of those facets. We are all looking at the same Greatness, but from different views. Perhaps those words hold true, and someday all people can realize that we are here together. As one. And instead of tearing each other apart, why cant we appreciate each other for who we are indiviually. why is it so hard for us to see the divine in each other? why is it so hard for us to just love?
31566811 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 6:51 AM Newman54 wrote ...
Get your info regarding this topic from a truthful source and she was in the thick of the occult....go to WWW.CHRISTIANANSWERSFORTHENEWAGE.ORG and read Marcia's story. She has been there and done that and explains everything! Check it out.....what do you have to lose?
31563001 Flag for moderationWednesday, Nov 4 at 12:38 AM Michelle Le Blanc wrote ...
Terra Gazelle, I suggest YOU go back and research again. Wicca and witchcraft are NOT the same thing. Wicca is a religious system created in the 1950s by Gerald Gardner based on various paths of witchcraft. The Wicca worship two very specific gods and employ a certain ceremonial magic. They use witchcraft yes, but that does not make wicca and witchcraft one and the same. I suggest you read on wicca's history, preferably from more than one source.
31556864 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 11:19 PM PJ wrote ...
The Old Testament prophets were not Christians, but were led by the Holy Spirit of God. There are over 300 Messianic Prophecies in the Old Testament that refer to the Messiah.(Jesus)
31554961 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 10:00 PM Reuben wrote ...
I CHOOSE TO PRAY FOR ALL BECAUSE TO BELIEVE IN GOD IS A GRACE FROM GOD. I PRAY THAT ALL PEOPLE BELIEVE IN GOD BEFORE GOD COMES BACK.
31552126 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:53 PM Terra Gazelle wrote ...
Michelle Le Blanc, Witch comes from the fourth century anglo saxon word Wicce...pronounced Wit-cha. The cc pronounced Cha. And Wiccecraeft and Witchcraft=same thing. And dear, Wicca is protected under the first amendment. In the early days we would never call ourselves Wiccans unless we were around outsiders. When you separate the parts of religion you take away the magick of the faith. Look up something called Pagan Musing…written by Tony Kelly back in the 70’s.
31551854 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:50 PM PJ wrote ...
Migizi said:....Just because you believe in god and jesus and other's don't, that means we are wrong? PJ Reply: Jesus said it! Just because someone says they are a christian does not make them one. There are a whole lot of hypocrites who talk the talk but do not walk the walk. Satan also has a whole lot of counterfeits.
31551731 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:46 PM Paul@Angie wrote ...
Just wondering when Mary Todd said Lincoln was no Christian...? You know, she went quite nuts in her old age... even if true, it doesn't change the Christian nature of our nation's culture from its inception... why no comments about John/Abigail Adams' beliefs?
31551579 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:42 PM Terra Gazelle wrote ...
You who quote the bible to prove your book is right can only prove you can read your book. It’s like someone saying they are right because they say so. Religion has to be taken on faith…and faith can not be proven by reason, only in your spirit. Selena Fox is a minister and should be respected as any other religion’s clergy should be. I have taken her ministerial intensives and gained much from them. I also gain from her because she has set an example of patience , compassion and energy. Our m
31551414 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:42 PM Paul@Angie wrote ...
I've already commented on Jefferson and Franklin. Paine was definitely an atheist/anarchist who I think God used to achieve our Revolution- I think he died in France during their extemely violent UnChristian Revolution. As with Jefferson, Washington's and Lincoln's personal religious views are unclear, though their public Pronouncements constantly refer to "Providence" and "God" - whatever they personally believed, their statements reflect the CHRISTIAN culture of our nation from its start
31551401 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:25 PM AlanC wrote ...
Wow, ignorance is bliss. Research holidays, 99% them have a pagan background. Look at lore of the old ways. Pagans are evil because they tell you to Harm None?... Or could that be translated to Thou Shall Not Kill. People want to through a fit because someone calls God, or goddess Not Jesus. Hate to tell you guys buy Jesus had a coven. 12 members plus himself makes 13.... Research before you speak.
31550736 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:19 PM Michelle Le Blanc wrote ...
That doesn't answer my question PJ. And your old testament comes from Jewish text. They were Jewish prophets, not Christian ones. Christianity didn't emerge until about three hundred years after Jesus left the Jerusalem area. So to call them Christian prophets is to display an ignorance of the history of your own book.
31550401 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:17 PM PJ wrote ...
Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.......................... The professed Christian is to be obediant to God by applying the scriptures to his/her life. True Christianity is a heart knowledge not just a head knowledge. The scripture reveals the true Jesus Christ. One cannot pick and choose things out of context when it comes to Gods Word.
31550336 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:15 PM Migizi wrote ...
Why don't Christians have the same respect pagans have? Just because you believe in god and jesus and other's don't, that means we are wrong? Pagan beliefs date further back than christianity. Including Native American Spirituality. My dad was a catholic but always said the ones that still practice the old ways should still be respected. This comming after the fact that the sisters at his church used to beat him for not speaking english. I lost out on a dieing language because of the church.
31550236 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:01 PM PJ wrote ...
Michelle Le Blanc wrote So who's right - Christianity, Judaism or Islam? ..................................PJ reply: The True Christian Faith which was preached by the Old Testament Prophets and the New Testament Apostles. Islam does not believe that Jesus is God,but only a good prophet. All who accept Jesus Christ by true repentance can be saved and have eternal life. Jesus is the resurrection and the life.
31549616 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 8:40 PM Michelle Le Blanc wrote ...
Convenient PJ. When you can quote an unbiased source then maybe your arguement might have some more weight. Because according to your book, Christianity is right because its book says so. Which is odd, considering the reason there are so many subsects of Christianity is because THEY can't agree on what the bible is saying. Judaism and Islam can use the same arguement. So who's right - Christianity, Judaism or Islam?
31548601 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 8:19 PM therese wrote ...
I am a Catholic, and if the prayer just referred to God and did not contain anything against my religion I would have no problem with it. If she referred to gods and goddesses than I would have a problem since I only believe in one God in three Divine Persons, the Holy Trinity. I would just cross myself before the prayer and after if she referred just to God, but if otherwise, I would not participate in the prayer. I once refused to participate in a prayer because it had an immoral request.
31547744 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 8:10 PM PJ wrote ...
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: ................................ (A true christian believes that the whole Bible is the inerrant and inspired word of Almighty God.) The word of God from beginning to end speaks of the coming of Jesus Christ as Savour and King of Kings. Rev 19:10 The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy
31547334 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 7:56 PM Michelle Le Blanc wrote ...
Satan as you define him doesn't exist. And I don't believe he ever did. Don't you find it peculiar that the Jewish people don't believe in a devil, but out of nowever a 'devil' appears in the New Testament? Don't you ever wonder where that myth ever came from? How do you explain his sudden appearance amongst a people who never believed the 'fallen angel' was a fallen angel to begin with?
31546719 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 7:51 PM PJ wrote ...
2Cr 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2Cr 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake........ .. .......... (Satan is the god of this world.)
31546474 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 6:52 PM Enchantedbroo wrote ...
Ignorant coward........
31544139 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 6:26 PM Michelle Le Blanc wrote ...
Witchcraft is a path. Not a religion. A green witch does not practice or believe exactly the same as a hedgewitch. It is not the tools, but the intent that is the real enemy. What god would condemn a witch who used her craft to heal? Is it so impossible to perceive that such a craft comes from the Divine Itself, a tool with which we can use to help others? We don't need a devil to explain away evil. We never did. Man is capable of it all on his own, without the aid of a 'devil'.
31543104 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:48 PM Mike wrote ...
I guess the abuse of the Constitution is rampant by by some state gov'ts, too.
31538756 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:47 PM Mike wrote ...
Founding Father, Supreme Court Justice, and found of Harvard law school, Joseph Story: "The real object of the First Amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mohammedanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects." The United States should remain faithful to its Christian roots as written in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Right now, the abuse by our fed. gov't of the Constitution is rampant.
31538731 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:46 PM Oriana wrote ...
Pandoraah - legitimate, for years now.... Web site logo IS WICCA A RELIGION? What the U.S. courts say: horizontal rule Sponsored link. horizontal rule The word "religion" in North America is often associated with a centralized organization, local religious buildings, a minister preaching to a congregation, a single male deity, an extensive creed, etc. These factors are not really present within Wicca. This causes some people to conclude that Wicca/Witchcraft is not a religion. Being founded
31538676 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:34 PM Ambrose Bierce wrote ...
CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.
31538116 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:23 PM Sheherazahde to Dave P. wrote ...
Any government sponsored religious activity (i.e. a prayer at a government assembly) does mix Church and State. I agree with you that it doesn't violate the First Amendment because the First Amendment does not prohibit mixing Church and State it prohibits the State favoring one religion over another.
31537594 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:17 PM Deb to PJ wrote ...
Ms. Fox does not practice witchcraft, so how does that fit in with your theories? Did you read her words? How are they different than what Jesus might have said in the same circumstances? You condemn people because they do not choose to wear the same label that you do. Isn't a person's actions and intentions worth more than a label that you and others have decided describe the ONLY correct belief? And how do you reconcile this with our right to Freedom of Religion?
31537299 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:09 PM TWP wrote ...
"But that doesn't say that there is only ONE way to come to God, does it?" Perhaps not, but "No one comes to the Father except by me," is pretty hard to spin otherwise. Religious tolerance is good and necessary for a civilized society, but that does NOT equate to acceptance that all religions are equivalent. Nor does believing one's own faith correct and others in error equate to forcing anything on anyone else.
31536941 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:07 PM PJ wrote ...
Deb to Pandoraah wrote--------------------------------------------------------If God condemnes Witchcraft in his Word why do you think he would hear the prayers of a WITCH? Witchcraft is demonic. God is not the authour of confusion.
31536821 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 4:05 PM Diane wrote ...
I met Selena Fox a long time ago when my family took a vacation to Wisconsin. She is a wonderful lady who talks about love and acceptance, no matter what your religion is. And to Pandoraah, Witch isn't a religion, it is Wicca. Wicca came from ancient Pagan religions who have been around far longer than many of the current ones and also, many of the current ones are based off Paganism. Many Wiccans or Pagans don't even cast spells.
31536679 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:58 PM pagangirl wrote ...
One of the reasons the U.S. is the great nation it is, is because I can live on the same street as Christians, Jews, Muslims, pagans, Buddhists, etc. and we don't have to kill each other. Tolerance for other beliefs is a hallmark of a free nation. We are FREE to have our beliefs. I am proud that the WI legislature recognized paganism and neopaganism as a legitimate belief system and honored Selena, a person who has worked tirelessly for religious freedom.
31536421 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:49 PM PJ wrote ...
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
31535911 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:48 PM Deb wrote ...
That sure sounds like a prayer for me, asking blessings for our legislators as they begin deliberations and make decisions that affect all of us.
31535839 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:46 PM Deb to Pandoraah wrote ...
I hope that was sarcasm on your part. If not, did you read Ms. Fox's "curse", as you put it? Here is a small portion: "Watch over and bless this Assembly, its members and its staff -- and all those who are here today. Bless All with Wisdom, Understanding, Creativity, Love, and Compassion, in Considerations, Deliberations, Communications, and Decision-making. Bless All, so that that there is a spirit of cooperation and success in finding effective solutions to the challenges before us".
31535761 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:31 PM Pandoraah wrote ...
Oh Yeah! Nothing wrong with witches opening with a curse! You can't call it a prayer. How whacky have we gotten when witches are now considered a legitimate religion? P-u-h-l-e-e-z-e! How many sane people do you think buy this?
31534899 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:23 PM PJ wrote ...
God shows no partiality with anyone. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not make them one. And even though we see the many injustices in the world because of sin it does not give us any excuse for rejecting Jesus Christ who is and was God in the flesh. Every christian will be judged for his or her works at the Judgement seat of Christ which is soon to come. Every christian is chastened by God according to his will. Only God has the right to chasten his own.
31534499 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:22 PM catchyseachild wrote ...
"...including Unitarian Universalist, Roman Catholic, United Church of Christ, Methodist, and others."
31534424 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:21 PM catchyseachild wrote ...
Mr Sykes chose not to include: "Rev. Fox is a regular participant in the Madison Interfaith Dialogue group that meets monthly at the St. Benedict Center. In addition, she is presently serving as President of the Greater Madison Interreligious Association which emerged out of the Faith and Order Commission of the Wisconsin Council of Churches. Rev. Fox has been a guest minister and speaker on interfaith Ecospirituality topics in various churches across America..."
31534359 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:16 PM Deb wrote ...
catchyseachild, you are exactly right. The article was basically a claim that one legislator decided to research Ms. Fox, then a bunch of quotes from her website. This is not journalism, in any sense of the word.
31534066 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:11 PM catchyseachild wrote ...
The commentary here should be on the incredibly terrible "journalism" presented in this article. I actually had to read through it twice, looking to see if there was a large chunk missing. There's pretty much no reporting here whatsoever. It's just a snippet meant to inflame those readers who do not share the writer's beliefs. Probably so he can later read through the comments for a religious diatribe on a talk radio show. Both the New York Times and ABC News commented favorably on this event.
31533889 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:05 PM Deb wrote ...
So, PJ, the ends justifies the means? Killing, abusing, defaming, or otherwise torturing or tormenting others until they see and accept YOUR "Truth" is justified, because you are "saving" them? Look at the atrocities that have been committed in the name of God, or Allah, or Jehovah...I am glad my beliefs do not tell me I need to force others to think and worship the same way that I do in order to validate MY beliefs.
31533546 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:04 PM catchyseachild wrote ...
PJ - perhaps. But the way of quoting scripture at people, telling them they are going to hell if they don't change doesn't win people over. Jesus coupled his message with loving deeds - he accepted people the traditional Jewish did not. He healed lepers and ate with sinners. He listened to others around him. Today's Christians don't accept anyone other than themselves.
31533476 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 3:01 PM Deb wrote ...
You know, I am curious as to the name of the person who is the "One legislator thought the prayer itself sounded so odd, he decided to check into the background of the Rev. Selena Fox, who apparently had been chosen to inspire lawmakers with a little dose of paganism." Or is this individual a figment of Charlie's imagination, to allow him to write this wasp's nest of an article?
31533326 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:58 PM PJ wrote ...
There is one GIANT misconception with some of the unsaved of this world. When Gods word is presented to them they automatically become defensive and call the one who is the messanger intolerant. A true Christian is called to spread the truth and live according to the truth because he is an ambassador of Jesus Christ. The true gospel message is the only way of being saved from our sins that we may come into fellowship with the true God in heaven.
31533079 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:43 PM SACRED CAVE REPORTER wrote ...
"Was it the Sacred Cave Ritual?" Beavis said. The article is slightly more informative than the title. I hope the title is meant to be funny, and not just ignorant. Everytime they have a Christian prayer, you should write an article called "Was it the Salem Witch Trials?"
31532199 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:42 PM PJ wrote ...
PM catchyseachild wrote .......Very good PJ. But that doesn't say that there is only ONE way to come to God, does it? --------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- Jhn 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
31532124 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:38 PM Deb to PJ wrote ...
Thank you, PJ, for coming forth with your name. I appreciate that. I may disagree with you, but I respect your right to your opinion and beliefs, which is what this great country is supposed to be about, from my understanding. Please grant me, and others who disagree with you, that same courtesy.
31531889 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:36 PM Phil wrote ...
This journalist's (if you can properly call him a journalist) intent was to tip the honey pot over so we could all just flock to it and swim to our hearts content. My best advice is to ignore the jackass. Additionally, arrogance reigns, once again, when anyone thinks they, or their, religion has cornered the market on the truth. "Who's more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobe
31531749 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:31 PM PJ wrote ...
PM Deb wrote PJ is the one who forgot to put her name Deb. After submit is hit we cannot edit it. Just so you know that I was anonymous without meaning to be anonymous.
31531469 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:30 PM Anonymous wrote ...
It amazes me how completely intolerant Christians are. From all the Christian comments, they must have agreed with Hitler to kill anyone not like themselves. I thought the Bible taught judge not lest ye be judged, but I guess the years I spent in Catholic school must have taught me nothing.
31531406 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:30 PM catchyseachild wrote ...
Very good PJ. But that doesn't say that there is only ONE way to come to God, does it? Why do Christians find it so hard to believe that a God that created such a wide range of people and cultures could appear to them in as many different forms? God is infinite after all - that is why the limited human understanding of Him will always be incomplete. We can however, try to grow beyond our limited views, to embrace Him in all His forms. That is true love and acceptance of all.
31531391 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:24 PM PJ wrote ...
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. -------------------------------------
31531064 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:23 PM catchyseachild wrote ...
I think that Jesus, who preached love and acceptance would be greatly dismayed by the behaviors of many so-called Christians on this commentary.
31530981 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:19 PM Deb wrote ...
So, "Anonymous" (one who cannot give his/her name, thereby can't be held accountable for his/her words): GOD wrote those words, huh? He didn't use a human being to give those words out? And if he did, that would make them subject to human interpretation or mis-interpretation, right? And what about Freedoem of Religion, one of the principles this country was founded on?
31530829 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:19 PM catchyseachild wrote ...
This country was not founded on Christian principles - it was founded on the idea of FREEDOM FOR ALL - all religious beliefs, with none favored above the other. The words "Under God" did not officially appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954 - hardly the time of our founding fathers. The FULL TEXT of the ORIGINAL Pledge, written by Francis Bellamy was "I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all." that's it!
31530819 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:17 PM Ray wrote ...
The Divine is larger than any one or group of humans' apprehension. How arrogant of any one to claim that they have "the only", "the true", "the one" view and way. To have such arrogance is to put themselves equal to Divinity. We are merely human, we see and understand only part of What Is. Accept the Wisdom, Guidance, and Paths that the Divine has scattered among all the peoples of the world throughout all time, placed everywhere because no one vessel can hold it all.
31530694 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:12 PM ~Angie @Paul wrote ...
Mary Todd Lincoln: "I assure you, Mr. Lincoln is not a Christian. And Paul -- I have hundreds more quotes like these from Franklin, Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Lincoln and Washington jut to name a few. Our Founding Fathers were NOT Christian and the United States of America was NOT founded on Chriastian principles.
31530369 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:10 PM ~Angie @ Paul wrote ...
"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -Benjamin Franklin "It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers" (Priestley's Autobiography) George Washington:The father of this country was very private about his beliefs, but it is widely considered that he was a Deist like his colleagues. He was a Freemason.
31530229 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 2:06 PM Anonymous wrote ...
Gal 5:19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. --------------------------------------- GODS WORD NOT MANS
31529994 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 1:59 PM Michelle Le Blanc wrote ...
Jesus did not come to start a new relgion. He came to preach the universal truths of peace, love, compassion, forgiveness. No matter what part of the world he chose to come to in his time, no matter the religion he was born into, his message would have remained the same. It's far past time we stopped focusing on the differences between us, and start looking at the things we share. We're not as different as you may think.
31529616 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 1:56 PM Michelle Le Blanc wrote ...
"Mistakes made in translation from the original scripture are irrelevant." Sorry Mr. Dunbar, but it IS relevant. I can't fathom how anyone can be expected to trust the word of a book written over a thousand years ago by men that possibly hasn't been translated correctly. How can you know its word is true if you can't even be sure it's telling you the correct truth? Faulty logic.
31529456 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 1:35 PM PJ wrote ...
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. Gods Holy Word can only be received and understood by the true Christian who has truly repented of his sins and has received Jesus Christ as his Savour and Lord. A true christian is one who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This is Gods word. NOT MANS.
31528294 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 1:20 PM lady majo wrote ...
as a journalist I feel shame as this reads the note does not make sense also seems logical to me the post of Christians with his "unique truth" wholly lacking in coherence I think debate without much sense lady majo coordinadora nacional PFI argentina and only wanted to use the good name of Selena Fox and years of political struggle in favor of paganism
31527371 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 12:48 PM Laura C wrote ...
Personally, I'm more upset over the lack of story in the original "news" report. Seems like the reporter only mentioned it so he could get in a couple of (very bad) scarcastic jabs. He mentions that one legislator decided to look into Selena's background, then quotes from Selenas site and drops it right there. Crappy reporting in order to start controversy.
31525584 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 12:11 PM Bob wrote ...
It's interesting to see that about a quarter of the responses are simply professions of Christianity above all else. These "spammers for Jesus" aren't convincing anyone...
31523306 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 12:00 PM Paradox wrote ...
Jesus came to reform the jewish faith which had gotten complacent and corrupt due to its monopoly on its followers he had many good ideas even as a Pagan myself i particulary enjoy his Love they neighbor (notice it doenst say but only if he is exactly like you in ev ery way) as thy self and love thy god as thyself sure christians preach jesus is the prince of peace but they forget the peace if anything that remotly looks like it could get people to think about why they believe rather than what
31522646 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 11:58 AM sunniewillow wrote ...
Im afraid for those who live in fear instead of love and compassion striving for understanding and truth, is what we should be doing not bolstering our religous egos
31522569 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 11:50 AM mgarcia wrote ...
ANYTHING THAT IS NOT OF GOD THE FATHER THE SON JESUS CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS OF EVIL AND THE LIAR. BELEIVE IN HIS GOODNESS AND MERCY. JESUS IS THE LOVING AND MERCIFULL - THOSE WHO ARE IN DOUBT - DOUBT NO MORE FOR CONFUSION COMES FROM THE EVIL ONE -LOVE JOY COMES FROM THE LORD - ANY OTHER IS DISTRUCTION AND JEALOUSY FROM THE EVIL ONE TO OUR LORDS PRECIOUS HUMAN BEINGS AND BABIES. WHOM THE EVIL ONE IS CONSTANTLY TRYING TO DESTORY - THERE IS NO GOOD IN EVIL...JESUS CHRIST IS OUR SAVIOUR
31522059 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 11:48 AM wolfgang wrote ...
He who cannot see what is distant, will find sorrow near at hand!
31521934 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 11:48 AM Jim wrote ...
If God is Mother then creation birthed and no longer simply good as Genesis says, but Divine. We will worship creation rather than the Creator. A masculine Holy Spirit descended upon Mary, but if God is Mother, then homosexuality is normalized. Only Jesus knows God and He called Him Father. God is motherly, but His Name is Father. Apostasy is coming to 'Christians' who accept such teachings.
31521889 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 11:44 AM Brian Dunbar wrote ...
Lori, "do you even realize that the bible we use today has many thousands of mistakes/changes and ommisions from the original scriptures?" Mistakes made in translation from the original scripture are irrelevant. The Word is True. Man's understanding is faulty and prone to prejudice and misunderstanding. This is true with modern translations as much as with the original scripture.
31521636 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 11:43 AM JC4ME wrote ...
Wow! These comments reveal the state our Nation truly is in! "deny me before man and I will deny you before my Heavenly Father." (Matthew 10:33) May God have mercy on all of us!
31521544 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 11:28 AM Katie K. wrote ...
The headline here was misleading and possibly even dangerous. Would you have headlined "Was it the Sacred Manger Ritual?" had a Christian given the invocation? A resident of this state gave a beautiful invocation and as her reward, is dishonored by the misleading half-truth of this hack job article, almost making her seem like some kind of criminal. "Check into the background"? Ridiculous. Shameful.
31520621 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 10:48 AM Kevin wrote ...
Here's part of her prayer. Sounds like stuff from any Rev: "Watch over and bless this Assembly, its members and its staff - and all those who are here today. Bless All with Wisdom, Understanding, Creativity, Love, and Compassion, in Considerations, Deliberations, Communications, and Decision-making. Bless All, so that that there is a spirit of cooperation and success in finding effective solutions to the challenges before us, And so that we can work together for more liberty and justice..."
31517979 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 10:44 AM Neotribe wrote ...
Rev. Fox is a past delegate in the Parliament of World Religions, had direct legal battles with the Bush administration over the rights of Wiccan military vets (and won), and has given academic talks at universities throughout the world on Neopaganism and Wicca. She has appeared everywhere from the NY Times to national TV news outlets such as CNN and CBS. Just because one disagrees with a particular religion is no reason to insult its adherents, or to say its ministers have no legitimacy.
31517736 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 10:37 AM PJ wrote ...
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Jesus Christ is the only way leading to Eternal Life. Witchcraft(like any other religion) is an abomination to Almighty God in Heaven.
31517369 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:49 AM Rev. Magi Berk wrote ...
It's the Christian bible that speaks of sacrificing goats or cattle, doves and pigeons not the Pagan doctrines.... Rev. Fox, simply gave an invocation designed to include ALL religions, something most Christian reverends fail to do, instead espousing their religions as the *only one*. I applaud Rev. Fox for being All inclusive... freedom of Religion, means ALL Religion, if one is not free than none are. Would you put us to death in an arena, as Roman Pagans did to Christians long ago???
31514386 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:43 AM lori wrote ...
wow, its amazing the hackles that are raised! instead of being sheeple, and blindly following what they are told, i wonder how many ruffled feathers out there actually take time to learn about different religions, rather than pointing fingers and blindly accusing? do you even realize that the bible we use today has many thousands of mistakes/changes and ommisions from the original scriptures? that its hard to even clarify the "originals". that perhaps everyone is right in their own beliefs.
31514016 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 9:26 AM Geneva wrote ...
Those of us who don't practice Bible-based faiths are no more comfortable with the traditional prayers - which often make no effort at all to be inclusive of other faiths - than this reporter and this (unnamed) legislator were with Selena Fox. If they find non- Christian faiths so controversial, maybe the Assembly should switch to a minute of silent meditation.
31512861 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 8:49 AM Deanna Deal wrote ...
If Mr. Sykes wanted to put out a good, factual story, and not just get certain people all riled up, he would have printed the entire invocation. It was carefully worded to be kind to and very inclusive of all religions. Grade 'F' to Mr. Sykes -- write the *whole* story next time instead of just trying to stir the pot!!!
31510534 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 8:23 AM Paul Shortis wrote ...
This new world hath been the asylum for the persecuted lovers of civil and religious liberty from every part of Europe. Hither have they fled, not from the tender embraces of the mother, but from the cruelty of the monster; and it is so far true of England, that the same tyranny which drove the first emigrants from home, pursues their descendants still. When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary. Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776
31508826 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 7:49 AM John wrote ...
Jesus said, Apart from me you can do nothing.
31506769 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 7:33 AM jmj wrote ...
There is only one TRUE GOD JESUS CHRIST Who Died for your sins !! Lord of Lords KING of KINGS ! He is coming SOON !! All the rest is of the DEVIL !!!!!!! REPENT
31505939 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 7:19 AM Natalie wrote ...
I have seen a bumper sticker that reads:"Freedom of Religion means Freedom for all religions"
31505304 Flag for moderationTuesday, Nov 3 at 6:50 AM Bob wrote ...
It's entirely true that "under God" was added to the Pledge in 1954. Go look it up. The bigger issue here is that times have changed. We live in a country with an incredible profusion and richness of people who worship after their own fashion, despite the fervent wishes of those who'd like their spiritual neighborhood to be artificially tidy. How lucky are we to have this freedom! And what a wonderful way to mark that diversity, by having Rev. Fox present the opening invocation!
31504181 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 11:38 PM TWP @ Hadrian wrote ...
Jefferson did not "write his own Bible". The so-called Jefferson Bible is just a set of excerpts from the real one. A reading from it is a reading from Christian scripture. You are correct, however, in so far as Jefferson shouldn't on the basis of this book be considered a Christian - Christianity entails acceptance of many OTHER things he apparently didn't accept. Also correct on BF, but two examples don't prove much about the founders as a whole. TJ and BF were the exceptions, not the rule.
31497179 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 11:26 PM @Paul wrote ...
"Baloney sausage" is putting it rather kindly.
31496846 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 11:07 PM Paul wrote ...
Though Angie is full of baloney sausage, Hadrian has a point that Ben Franklin was no Christian (and pretty much amoral, to put it kindly), and Jefferson had some weird religious views (the more I read about Jefferson, the more he is difficult to pin down on his actual beliefs). But most of the founders, from what I've read (much), were at least practicing Christians, just like the majority of the American people at the time. More later, when I have time.
31496436 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 6:46 PM ~Angie wrote ...
Cletus, the words "Under God" were not added to the Pledge until 1954. This Nation's Founders were for the most part, NOT Christian, in fact they objected strongly to the religion.
31488259 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 5:46 PM Hadrian wrote ...
All you folks that insist that the founding fathers were so oh so christian should go read a copy of Poor Richard's Almanac sometimes. It's full of astrology. And why was it that Jefferson wrote his OWN Bible - the Jeffersonian Bible, and that was used in the first sessions of Congress - look it up. Prove me wrong.
31486056 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 5:36 PM Draken wrote ...
"Cletus! It's them gosh-durned paganists again! They's prayin in our town hall! Git the shotgun!" Allow one religion to send clergy to pray in government buildings, allow them all. First Amendment.
31485546 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 4:31 PM Mombo Napolitano wrote ...
She should date Rev. Wright
31482526 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 3:14 PM uneeda smack wrote ...
According to prophesy this is another piece of the puzzle. We can't stop what's coming
31478347 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 2:00 PM MinneMama wrote ...
Cletus, hon, who are you to say it's not the same God? Why does the idea that there's more than one way to experience the "divine" frighten so many? Why are they so worried that acknowledging that some people believe and worship differently, yet are not evil, will somehow invalidate their own beliefs?
31474807 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 1:43 PM Christopher Blackwell wrote ...
As her opening prayers did not mention any deity in particular I can't imagine what the problem is. It was not specifically a Wiccan prayer. If you claim to have freedom of religion then you have to respect all religions, not just the favored one. Some people are just getting upset that there are not special rights for Protestant Christians. Remember both democracy and republics were invented by the Pagan Greeks. Our legal system is based on the legal system of Pagan Rome.
31473892 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 1:24 PM Dave P. to noinden wrote ...
i do apologize if I inferred that a neopagan/Wiccan would sacrifice a goat (or an intern, which would be cheaper). I meant to refer to religious practices in general which could get gory (blood, guts, middle-aged women dancing in tights)...
31472934 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 1:21 PM Dave P. (cont') wrote ...
Otherwise, those who wrote and ratified the Constitution and Bill of Rights would not have themselves begun their sessions with prayer.
31472784 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 1:16 PM Dave P. to Sheherazahde wrote ...
You are right in saying that all beliefs in a public forum should be respected, but you err in saying that "mixes church and state." The First Amendment prohibits establishment of religion, which means having a particular religion favored over all others. Such was the case with the Church of England, the Stattenkirchen in Germany, and the Orthodox Church in Russia. But it did not prohibit expression of religion, such as prayer to begin a legislative session. (Cont')
31472404 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 12:19 PM ~Angie wrote ...
Am I missing something? I don't see anything wrong with the reporting itself, or with the fact that she was invited to give the prayer. As for our country being founded on the god of the Bible, that is pure fantasy. Go do some historical research for yourself instead of being a sheeple that believes everything they're told.
31469114 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 12:01 PM Sheherazahde wrote ...
The Government can not discriminate against people by their religion. If you are going to mix church and state you have to include ALL religions.
31468021 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 11:39 AM Noinden wrote ...
Dave P. It is clear that you did not put your issues to one side. While I'd personally not put Selena as MY representative of faith (I am a Neopagan but not a Wiccan). You hit the nail on the head. Religious Freedom. This is all that matters. End of story.
31466761 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 11:37 AM Brian wrote ...
"classic "moonbat" thrust into another political forum" Nothing on that page says anything about Selena Fox's politics. Assuming she's Left or Progressive from that alone would be a mistake. But do keep your prejudices going: it's amusing.
31466652 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 11:17 AM Amy P. wrote ...
I have to say that - while odd - the First Amendment should protect this, provided it also allows prayers by other faiths. The hypocrisy is the problem. One has to wonder if Gaylor has her hackles up at this expression of religion in public? Or is this somehow okay because it's Wicca?
31465591 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 10:55 AM Dave P. to Cletus wrote ...
I agree that the Founding Fathers, or even the founders of Wisconsin, envisioned this happening. But I also remember that there was a time not that long ago that state legislatures would not have wanted a Catholic priest leading them in prayer, as he was regarded as a minion of the Whore of Babylon. If I want the freedom to express my faith in public, I must defend the freedom for others to do so, even if I do not share those beliefs at all.
31464359 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 10:33 AM craig wrote ...
http://www.mhtc.net/~selena/ classic "moonbat" thrust into another political forum
31463137 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 10:12 AM cletus wrote ...
How can we call ourselves "one nation under God" then pray to something other than the One True God? Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, the country was founded on a fundamental belief in God as revealed in the Bible. Our politicians like to slap a "God bless America" on the end of their speeches but then turn around and offer up worship to pagan entities via Wiccan prayer. No wonder God's Word says "God is not mocked. You reap what you sow." God help America.
31461999 Flag for moderationMonday, Nov 2 at 9:43 AM Dave P. wrote ...
My own issues with paganism/Wicca aside, I'd have to defend Rev. Fox's appearance there on grounds of religious freedom, on the natural condition that all faiths/spiritualities are allowed, and not just politically correct ones; and that they don't do anything messy, like sacrificing a goat or an intern.
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