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THOSE END OF LIFE COUNSELING SESSIONSBy Charlie SykesI think, given that the member of Congress who drafted H.R. 3200 read and take seriously people like Klien, Yglesias, and Singer, we should be very troubled by Section 1233 of H.R. 3200. The section, titled “Advanced Care Planning Consultation” requires senior citizens to meet at least every 5 years with a doctor or nurse practitioner to discuss dying with dignity. The section requires that they talk to their doctor, not a lawyer, about living wills, durable healthcare powers of attorney, hospice, etc. Given the progressive intelligentsia already being on the record in favor of euthanizing the elderly, it is no small leap to see where the Democrats are headed with this. Legally forcing senior citizens to have “death with dignity schedules every few years is just another way to say the government wants to make sure seniors know it is time to commit suicide to save the system money. And saving any medical system through encouraged deaths of the elderly or unborn is not a medical system worth having. The Hippocratic Oath requires doctors to “do no harm.” That’s meant toward the patient, not the costs to the government. |
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Sunday, Aug 16 at 11:52 AM cleaves m. bennett md wrote ...
Obama pulling the plug on grandma because it’s too costly to keep her alive is nonsense. As a hospital based doc I’ve counseled >1000 patients and families about end of life care. They asked questions, I answered, they’d decide: antibiotics yes, kidney dialysis no, heart massage and ventilator no, tube feeding for a week, yes. Treat the bedsore on her back – it stinks and is uncomfortable. No amputation of her bluish toes now because they aren’t painful. I did this for every patient I saw. It wa
27833906 Flag for moderationTuesday, Aug 4 at 8:04 AM Amy wrote ...
It is unthinkable that the people we elected to office to serve our interests have taken it upon themselves to legislate our death. It is very frightening to think that the younger people of this nation will have the chance to do away with the burden of the elderly who desperately need care which will cost too much. The morals of the people in Washington are so bankrupt and evil and it is inconceivable that money and politics rule our country instead of equility and fairness we used to live by
27274069 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 29 at 8:05 PM TWP wrote ...
Who's custodian of my body I consider a relatively "important thing". But that's just me.
27028239 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 29 at 7:51 PM MF wrote ...
Maddog, I worry about the important things....and this aint one of them. You know if you're not happy with the direction of this country I understand that lots of conservative zealots have been drawn to New Zealand...
27027676 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 29 at 3:36 PM MF wrote ...
Maddog, I worry about the stuff worth worrying about...this aint it. If you aren't happy with this country then try New Zealand -- it's a popular destination for disenchanted conservative zealots.
27016196 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 29 at 3:00 PM beatfarmer wrote ...
Having read the section of the bill, it's pretty clear that this is a guideline for doctors to give guidance to people in their care. It talks about living wills, power of attorney, what a health care proxy does, etc. It doesn't say anything about limiting care to the elderly, mandatory meetings, or encouraging anyone to die. Informing someone about their rights is very important. With my parents, we "kids" had to convince them to do power of attorney. Mom died 2 yrs ago and Dad has Dimentia now
27013984 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 29 at 11:12 AM MADDOG wrote ...
And if you are NOT suspicious of every and anything this regime does, then you are primed for the fleecing.
26997911 Flag for moderationTuesday, Jul 28 at 10:45 AM MF wrote ...
The "law" will "require" Medicare to make available to those senior citizens who choose to avail themselves of the service, a consultation outlining for them all the services available to people late in life. No mandatory counseling. No "please just go quietly and don't overburden the medical system." If you think otherwise you are paranoid beyond belief.
26925594 Flag for moderationTuesday, Jul 28 at 8:08 AM TWP @ MF (continued) wrote ...
Unless you have, you can't know the amended version is "tame". The presence of "shall include" reeks of "won't be covered unless they include" to me. But I don't know and the people putting out this talking point may not know and wouldn't say even if they did. Regardless, with this level of digging required to decipher the effect of just a few words, it's criminal to suggest that only a few day is sufficient for informed evaluation of arguably the biggest power grab in American history.
26913349 Flag for moderationTuesday, Jul 28 at 8:07 AM TWP @ MF (more seriously) wrote ...
"Have any of you actually read..." This is in fact not a reasonable criteria for debate anyway according The Obama/Pelosi ground rules. The One himself by his own admission hasn't read the thing either. The words in question amend the Social Security Act and one must track back to find out what they effectively mean. They amend a section defining a particular medical service. So all cool, right? Not so fast. Have you, MF, "actually read" each place that definition is used in the applicable law?
26913249 Flag for moderationTuesday, Jul 28 at 7:28 AM TWP @ MF wrote ...
The words "mandatory" or "required" needn't be explicit in laws; they are that by definition. That's why they're called "laws" rather than "suggestions". Duh.
26910424 Flag for moderationMonday, Jul 27 at 12:00 PM MF wrote ...
Have any of you actually read this section of the bill? Obviously not. The words "mandatory" or "required" aren't there! The consultation is completely optional and has nothing to do with killing off granny. The legislation is bad but this section of it is completely tame.
26858966 Flag for moderationFriday, Jul 24 at 6:08 PM Maddie - Saukville wrote ...
Don't think of it as eldercide, its more of a 198th tri-mester abortion. (3x65=195 3 in the womb)
26747431 Flag for moderationFriday, Jul 24 at 6:59 AM MADDOG wrote ...
Snowbird do you have any idea what these "End of life counseling sessions" really are? These are sessions where the government tries to talk the "old" people into dying to get them off the plan. You know to save money. Its not to have them sign a form saying they do not want to be revived if they are in a coma or otherwise. If you think that's ok then get out of our country and go live in England.
26707017 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 9:48 PM Snowbird wrote ...
I don't know about this particular HR bill, but anyone who has an estate or wishes it to be distributed according to their wishes should have a will or trust. If not you're just plain stupid. As for Dr doing wills, etc., then the attorney should be able to surgery. My mother did the will, POA, and signed off on resuscitation long before she went into the nursing home. If you can't prepare for death how can you deal with living. Reps are mortal just like everyone else. Get a grip.
26686792 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 8:41 AM btycrkr to odumbofan wrote ...
You would know about wh_ores as you are one for government freebies.
26616296 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 7:40 AM TWP wrote ...
I can only hope "obamafan" is a know-it-all teenager. It's tough to imagine this stuff emanating from a grownup. Then again...
26611844 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 7:37 AM TWP wrote ...
Something being a good idea (or even, DTMB, Charlie Sykes choosing to do it) does not make it acceptable for the government to compel everyone else to do it. Is that really such a difficult concept for you guys? Without freedom to make choices others disagree with, there is no freedom.
26611594 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 7:27 AM to obamafan wrote ...
You would know about whores as you're one for government hand outs.
26610986 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 6:47 AM obamafan wrote ...
moonbats the people i love have wills and trusts and poa drawn up typical of republicans to make things non issues seem real important while just trying to stall national health care thats because they are whores for the insurance industry
26608262 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 6:10 AM A.M. Kisly wrote ...
Seems to me, that all the liberals pushing for this "death care" ought to lead by example, let's start with Ted Kennedy.
26606616 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 4:55 AM MADDOG tio DTM,b wrote ...
And your point is?
26604467 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 4:06 AM DTM, B wrote ...
I'll bet 6 to 5 and pick 'em that Charlie has both a Living Will and advance directives about his health care for if-and-when his high-stress lifestyle puts him into the hospital. If you haven't taken care of these basic protections for yourself already then it's your kids who decide when your plug gets pulled. My goodness, you people are either silly or stupid.
26603699 Flag for moderationThursday, Jul 23 at 12:02 AM Doris wrote ...
If this isn't Soylent Green then it is leaving Grandma out on the iceberg for the Kodiac bear to eat. In our household, we think the author of this bill and it's proponents should be the first to stand in line for the new healthcare system; they could tell the rest of us how they like it.
26601209 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 6:01 PM Ollie Green wrote ...
If obamafan and others of his ilk had their way, debate would not be allowed...
26589049 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 3:43 PM Leo to obamafan wrote ...
I have a challenge for you! Ask some person that you really respect and trust(your mother,father, minister,etc) to go to this website and this posting and read all the comments. Then ask them which comment is the most juvenile, petty, and asinine of the bunch. I'll bet you'll be surprised.
26582459 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 2:35 PM Obamafan: What are you supporting? wrote ...
What is your point? Don't we have a right to disagree with this catastrophic healthcare bill that will effect everyone?? Why do we have to talk about end of life issues if we don't want to? Why do we have technology to improve the quality and quantity of our life if we are not going to be given access to it? Or will it be like the BO stated, "Just take the pain pill and we can hold off on that hip replacement". What do you agree with?
26578502 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 1:38 PM butterbye wrote ...
I will not go to my Doctor to discuss end of life issues. They can make me go to jail and believe me I will go kicking and screaming...
26574314 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 12:16 PM obamafan wrote ...
wish we could have this for republicans, seriosuly you guys are nuts get out the tin hats bet some of you think obama isn't a us citizen and the moon shot was staged
26568064 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 11:50 AM btycrkr to Leo wrote ...
Most excellent point! But the libs want to rush women into choosing to abort before they've had a chance to think the decision through. Couldn't have woman making that CHOICE!!
26565814 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 11:42 AM Leo of the Bohicans wrote ...
Hey, JL, please allow me to finish your thought. Are we willing to force seniors to contemplate the end of their lives, but unwilling to ask that a woman receive counseling before ending the life of her un-born child?
26565116 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 10:22 AM Hank wrote ...
The crickets from the left are deafening.
26559314 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 9:45 AM TWP @ Mombo Napolitano wrote ...
Yes, that's a group I particularly want to hear apologize (in either sense of the word) for their position.
26556466 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 9:36 AM Mombo Napolitano wrote ...
I want to hear from all the liberal church offiicals, who voted for BO, to chime in on this. Is this the sanctity of life that chorch officials speak of?
26555916 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 9:10 AM Jeff K. wrote ...
When the time comes. You will go to a government center where they will show you wonderful images with music as you die. Then you will be processed into Soylent Green. MMMMM Soylent Green gandma.
26554016 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 8:49 AM Specialk wrote ...
When I pointed this out to friends, their response was "Well, I already have a durable power of attorney and a medical directive, so why should I care?" The writer has it dead on - this is about encouraging the elderly to do their duty and die. Remember former governor Richard Lamm who argued that the elderly have a duty to die. He must be back.
26552727 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 8:49 AM jenni wrote ...
Now, isn't this just lovely? My Mom is a diabetic who functions very well with medication,diet,and proper eating. In a few years she will be over 55, so by this definition she will be expendable. Will she be denied care? Probably.
26552684 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 8:48 AM Alice wrote ...
How can a doctor who takes an oath of "do no harm" have any part of this?
26552632 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 8:19 AM J.L. Schallert wrote ...
Terrific! This plan will require that the elderly go to the doctor (whether they are feeling ill or not!) to discuss their deaths. I realize how quaint it is to harp on the fact that the Constitution of the United States gives not even the hint of allowing such powers to the federal government. But it is un-American for Congress to force these people to discuss something they would probably rather not have to think about for a while! That option will not longer be open for them. Sheesh!
26550852 Flag for moderationWednesday, Jul 22 at 7:32 AM TWP wrote ...
Aren't ANY of the people who were conned into voting for this monstrosity yet willing to stand up and say "I made an awful mistake. Will you please forgive me?" If not now, then what would it take? That, folks, is what's truly frightening. Anyone still supporting this agenda is morally accountable for stuff like this.
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