Story Created:
Jun 15, 2009
Story Updated:
Jun 15, 2009
Here's a glimmer of hope.
PRINCETON, NJ -- A new Gallup Poll, conducted May 7-10, finds 51% of Americans calling themselves "pro-life" on the issue of abortion and 42% "pro-choice." This is the first time a majority of U.S. adults have identified themselves as pro-life since Gallup began asking this question in 1995.
Sunday, May 17 at 6:49 PM conservative wrote ...
your right on Dragondazin. there were a couple bloggers here that used the rape situation as their arguement that pro-life supports are hipocrates. Rape is a horrible situation, but I would be willing to bet that if abortion was limited to only rape situations and health of the mother these bloggers wouldn't be happy with that either
23795767 Flag for moderationSunday, May 17 at 8:00 AM Dragondazin wrote ...
It is so simple, If you lead a moral life with a moral attitude you then greatly reduce the unexpected pregnancies. When you live the "I want to do whatever i feel like without any consequences for my actions" You then get the unwanted results of your selfish behavior, At which time you should then own up to your actions. NOT run away and act like the victim. A high number of abortions are second time around for these people that want no account for their actions.
23795762 Flag for moderationSunday, May 17 at 6:52 AM TWP @Rationalizing Observer wrote ...
I'd be elated if 1) abortion law were a legislative process and 2) it moved from its present position to one of prohibition except in LOM or forcible rape cases. The present situation is way closer to the other extreme, yet you attack the one and are silent on the other. You talk about legislation but are silent about the judicial rulings that overarch present abortion law. You're rationalizing support for a position you can't defend by telling yourself it's no worse than the other "nuts".
23795757 Flag for moderationSunday, May 17 at 4:46 AM Rational Observer wrote ...
Lawmakers get boxed into extreme positions when irrational legislation is presented. Do so-called "pro-life" groups want reasonable restrictions on abortion or do they want a total and complete ban? These issues could be resolved in a manner which reflects the views of the vast majority of Americans if both sides approached the process with a spirit of compromise. The American people would not prohibit a woman who has been raped from getting an abortion or emergency contraception. Face it.
23795752 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 10:26 PM TWP @Dissembling Observer wrote ...
Interesting. You mock the position of the Catholic Church but have said nothing about the President of the US, who is, by your own standard, just as "out of the mainstream of American thought".
23795747 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 9:54 PM Rational Observer wrote ...
NARAL is the Pro-Life Wisconsin of the left. Both positions are out of the mainstream of American thought. A very small percentage of the American people would deny an abortion or emergency contraception to a woman who has been raped. Similarly, very few people believe that abortion should be available to the moment of birth.
23795742 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 9:43 PM Leo of the Bohicans to TO wrote ...
Well then I guess you got me there. So it's not the career minded women or the East Side princesses that are erasing their little Mistakes, or as the President likes to call them, "Punishments", it's people of color who are "killing" themselves. Sounds like Margaret Sanger's vision is being fulfilled. And the welfare state of the sixties and seventies was instrumental in decimating the nuclear black family.
23795737 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 1:59 PM @JP wrote ...
No - more people are against gay marriage, as shown by the votes in almost every state where people have voted on it (even Uber-Liberal California) - BTW: don't confuse the issue - this post is about abortion - please stay on-task
23795732 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 1:10 PM Jay Pee wrote ...
And soon we will be more pro gay marriage than anti gay marriage...will that get the same reaction?
23795727 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 11:14 AM TWP @12:03 Anonymous wrote ...
I believe I said this "only seems simple to the simple-minded", If you chose to read this as "the world looked so black and [white]" I'm afraid I can't do much for you. As for describing in detail my own position, may I point out that I'm not the one mocking others for the details of theirs. "Rational Observer" is. And where did I suggest "the left [in general] has no morals or integrity on these issues". I will, however, say I do consider the far left (Obama, NARAL), position morally bankrupt.
23795722 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 11:08 AM That One to Leo wrote ...
Leo, according to the data, 34% of abortions recipients are non-Hispanic white women. That means 66% are non-white which in the USA makes them racial minorities. Considering most pro-lifers are Republicans and the Republican Party platform rails against welfare and supports workfare gimmicks which have reduced welfare rolls, but not poverty, my statements stand. I agree with your point on nuclear families, but won't concede that welfare is the reason they are broken.
23795717 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 10:03 AM Anonymous wrote ...
"Where's YOUR boundary between morally acceptable vs unacceptable? Let's see if it stands up to close examination as well as theirs". Turn the question back again, are some forms of artificial birth control considered murder? Suggesting the left has no morals or integrity on these issues speaks more to your own prejudices. If only the world looked so black and what-but then it would not so challenging.
23795712 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 9:51 AM Leo of the Bohicans to TO wrote ...
Nothing on that website refutes what I said about minorities or supports your initial comment that the pro-life position automatically puts one in an anti-welfare position. What their study does indicate is that having a child can put a strain on young women as they seek financial stability, not that welfare is the solution. Men with steady work was a prime factor. The best anti-poverty program is called intact, two parent family. If anything, welfare nearly ended that in the central cities.
23795707 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 8:15 AM That One to Dim Leo of the Bohicans wrote ...
Leo, while the Catholics Alliance and the Guttmacher Institute are on polar opposites of the abortion debate, both organizations support the exact opposite of what you state in your post. I know you won't actually look it up, but here it is: http://www.catholicsinalliance.org/files/CACG_Final.pdf and http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
23795702 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 7:24 AM TWP @Evasive Observer wrote ...
"safe, legal, and extremely rare." Why? I think most of the pro-life arguments being made in this particular thread are based on morality. Why do you want them "extremely rare", unless you too have a moral issue with them? And you're ridiculing the CC's position based on its logic for the cases on the margins. Where's YOUR boundary between morally acceptable vs unacceptable? Let's see if it stands up to close examination as well as theirs.
23795697 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 6:56 AM Leo of the Bohicans wrote ...
If That One is suggesting that most abortions are given to poor, minority(African American?) women, then he/she/it is just making it up, or better put, it's a bald faced lie.
23795692 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 5:29 AM brushman wrote ...
Hey, where were all these pro-deathers on the post about the small fetus grasping the doctor's finger from inside the womb? I submit they couldn't handle the reality of what their evil beliefs dictate, that it is a child, and not a "blob of tissue"
23795687 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 5:21 AM jfoust wrote ...
There's a better explanation at www.fivethirtyeight.com .
23795682 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 5:12 AM That One wrote ...
I am not opposed to pro-life position. What I find interesting is that most abortions are carried out by poor women. while the right wants abortion to end, they are the first to want to eliminate welfare...Of the 14 million people on welfare, 9 million are children. Conservatives believe life begins at conception, yet use myths (welfare queens, most poor don't work) to undermine a program that provides a basic lifeline for those who are most likely to be aborted: poor children.
23795677 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 4:59 AM Rational Observer wrote ...
Again, the percentage of the American public which shares your view that a rape victim isn't entitled to an abortion is in the low single digits. I post these comments to bring you folks out of the weeds and to show casual readers here how extreme some of the so-called "pro-life" positions really are. Thank you for helping to prove my point. I think that abortion in the first trimester should be safe, legal, and extremely rare.
23795672 Flag for moderationSaturday, May 16 at 4:37 AM ijeff wrote ...
Reading all the poll results (as bigcat did), what's most interesting is it shows how extreme Obama's position is relative to most Americans. Totally fitting for the most radical president of the past 100 years. But, seriously makes me wonder when and if the public will ever reconcile the positions of Obama and their own beliefs on many issues of which abortion is just one.
23795667 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 10:02 PM @Rational, again wrote ...
Besides, the rape-pregnancies (however terrible) is a bit of a canard regarding the whole abortion issue - I don't know the percentages, but I'm sure very few abortions are the result of rape
23795662 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 9:52 PM @Rational wrote ...
Abortion is like a second rape, to the victim - studies show women who give up their babies for adoption are better off emotionally than women who have the baby aborted
23795657 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 9:49 PM TWP @Condescending Observer wrote ...
Do you differ with Amy only on the rape pregnancy case or are you being fatuous yourself? The Catholic Church's position has the virtue of being clear and consistent. You seem to suggest it's less "rational" than whatever yours is, but I suspect yours has more fuzzy and hard-to-defend cases than theirs. Stuff like this only seems simple to the simple-minded.
23795652 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 8:30 PM Rational Observer wrote ...
Ah, Amy -- always displaying that fatuous Roman "compassion." Sure the rape victim can be counseled, and she can take the child to visit daddy in the penitentiary, I assume? The percentage of the American population which supports your "compassionate" position is in the low single digits.
23795647 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 6:01 PM Also wrote ...
Obama supports killing babies who survive a "botched" abortion - or at least throwing them in cleaning closets to die without care (as one nurse has testified it happened due to Illinois law sponsored by Obama) - we have an OBAMANATION in the White House
23795642 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 5:23 PM Amy P. wrote ...
Rational Observer says: "These people have no human compassion!" As opposed to, say, people like him who see no problem with ripping apart a human being in the womb. Guess what, Rational? Rape victims can be counseled, their attackers imprisoned. An aborted child cannot be put back together and miraculously given life after being ripped apart in the womb. I stand for the defense of life because even in the most horrible of circumstances it is the remaining glimmer of hope - abortion is not.
23795637 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 5:14 PM Kenny G to JTR wrote ...
No, my friend. There is universal forgiveness. But listen to yourself. I hear your argument. OK, are you sure that Thomas Edison's mom wasn't raped? Or Ben Franklin's? Or Albert Einstein's? Or Your Great Great Grandfather's? Or Moses? Or anyone of historical significance for that matter? I mean are you SURE? Hey, it could have happened to anyone born outside of our absolute knowledge. Heck, some hard-loned feminists believe that ALL sex is rape. My point is that such arrogance is beyond reason.
23795632 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 4:33 PM Leo of the Bohicans wrote ...
Add abortion on demand, for any reason, to the ever-growing list of "Progressive" ideas that do not work in the "Real world". I give "Gay Marriage" and man made "Global Warming" a generation or two before people throw up their hands and ask "What the hell were we thinking?"
23795627 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 2:18 PM TWP @4:07 PM Anonymous wrote ...
The vast majority of abortions ARE "unneeded".
23795622 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 2:13 PM TWP @JTR wrote ...
The moral "center of gravity" is certainly between the most vocal extremes. We have a mechanism for working out important things that at least tries to give everyone a voice: the legislative process. Wouldn't it be great to give it a try? I would be happy to see that happen, even if it takes a while to reach the position I hope a civilized people eventually would. Opposition to such self-government is heavily concentrated on one end of the political spectrum. Guess which one.
23795617 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 2:07 PM Anonymous wrote ...
All the talk about late term abortions, they make up about 1%. 89% of all abortions are first term. Almost 50% of all pregnancies are unplanned. As to the survey, I have NEVER met anyone who is pro-abortion. Some believe we should do everything in our power to make abortions unneeded.
23795612 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 1:42 PM JTR wrote ...
I need to ask a question. Is there room for those of us who are not as absolute in our beliefs. Example: a woman is raped and wants to take the abortion pill within the next week or get an abortion within the first two months. If I agree with that am I expelled from the conservative side of the house.
23795607 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 1:20 PM Dave P to Kenny G wrote ...
Trouble is, an increasing number favor the liquidation of the inconvenient, whether in the womb or out of it.
23795602 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 11:58 AM Kenny G to Betty wrote ...
Well said. My argument to the pro-rip-the-pre-born-apart-limb-from-limb people has always been, "Why not terminate the elderly, the mentally challanged, the contagious, or the unemployed person? Why not let the child be born and THEN see if they deserve to live! Why be hasty? Why be prejudiced that the baby will be a a drain? Why not give the little guy a chance and make the determination later?" But they never answer the question. They always change the subject to the breeding female's rights.
23795597 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 10:49 AM btycrkr wrote ...
It truly is amazing that poeple who think waterboarding is torture are the same people who think it fine, nay, a RIGHT to be able to suck a baby out of it's mother's womb, torn apart while still alive! And think late term abortions are just fine! If it's safe enough to deliver the baby except for the head, it would be safe to just deliver the rest of the baby. And it IS a baby once all the chromosomes and DNA join.
23795592 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 10:36 AM Another Rational Observer wrote ...
The problem with compromise on this issue is that the abortion nuts want no compromise -- it's permit ANY abortion or nothing. A mother could have her baby killed at any time for any reason if the nuts have their way. Get the nuts to accept reasonable restrictions on abortion and it may be possible to legislate. We know who the nuts are -- some of them post here regularly. These are the folks who even oppose restricting gender selection abortion. These people have no human decency.
23795587 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 9:57 AM Kenny G wrote ...
It's simple: More people understand the technology and the biology today than they did even 12 years ago. Maybe those folks with the grusome signs did more good than they know! They aren't changing the LAW, but they are having an effect on OPINION and hopefully PRACTICE! Powerful truth ad campaigns of hearts beating at early stages etc help as well! Man oh man, truth has a way of rising to the top, like cream on raw milk, don't it?
23795582 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 9:39 AM BIGCAT wrote ...
You mean should Obama have laughed at Wanda Syke's tasteless jokes about the poor, defenseless humanitarian Rush(imprison all the drug addicts except me)Limbaugh? No. And thank you for answering my question and giving a honest response to a difficult moral question of abortion.
23795577 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 9:36 AM Thank you to JTR wrote ...
Hypocrisy! Those of us "nuts" who don't want the killing of a baby under any circumstance cannot understand the reasoning of the other side's opposition to waterboarding or anything else they describe as "torture". WHY isn't the murder of a baby also a form of torture that should be opposed?? Come on, look at this rationally please!
23795572 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 9:09 AM JTR wrote ...
It is truly a strange world when some of us see waterboarding of America's enemies as truly heinous but see things like late-term abortions as topics for rational discussion. Unfortunately abortion is one topic where it is truly hard to be rational. I would consider myself pro-life but if it were my daughter who had been raped I'm not so sure where I would stand. By the way BigAct, sorry, I meant BigCat, (dyslexia I guess) I answered your question the other day but you keep avoiding mine.
23795567 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 8:48 AM to Rational wrote ...
Yes, let us compromise on murder. How about if the child was conceived on an odd numbered day its ok, but even number days are no good. And your example doesn't hold up. Violence against an innocent child is not the answer to a violet crime.
23795562 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 8:41 AM Bob to Kitty wrote ...
Are you stupid on purpose? The fact that the percentages are now equal is the story. In years past, unrestricted abortion was way ahead of no abortion, peaking in 1993 with about 34% for unrestricted abortion and only 12% for no abortion. Your attempt to spin this is foolhardy.
23795557 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 8:39 AM hr wrote ...
Abortionists will now change the terms of the debate . . . again.
23795552 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 8:35 AM Rational Observer wrote ...
The problem with compromise on this issue is that the abortion nuts want no compromise -- it's ban ALL abortions or nothing. The young girl raped by her stepfather could not get an abortion if the nuts have their way. Get the nuts to accept reasonable restrictions on abortion and it may be possible to legislate. We know who the nuts are -- some of them post here regularly. These are the folks who even oppose emergency contraception after a rape. These people have no human compassion.
23795547 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 8:24 AM Mr. Pelican Pants wrote ...
Po fo sho!
23795542 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 7:54 AM BIGCAT wrote ...
The gallup article goes on to provide some interesting facts left out by Charlie. 1) the % for unrestricted abortion vs. the % for no abortion under any circumstance is about the same (22-23%) 2) the majority of americans believe in allowing abortion under certain circumstances..." Still, the dominant position on this question remains the middle option, as it has continuously since 1975: 53% currently say abortion should be legal only under certain circumstances."
23795537 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 7:43 AM Steve Austin wrote ...
I think this shift is a result of Mexican immigration (legal and illegal) Hispanics have pretty strong family and moral values. While the democrats love all these new "voters", they will be surprised that many will not tow the party line on all issues. Is there a breakdown on how demographic groups polled here and was a larger percentage of Hispanics sampled than in the past?
23795532 Flag for moderationFriday, May 15 at 7:23 AM Wendy - Richfield wrote ...
I think the change is related to age. A bigger percentage of people that were adults when abortions were illegal would be pro-choice because they remember the "back-alley" abortions. People born after that would be more pro-life because they dont know what it was like for women before that.
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